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Two crucial mistakes a journalist can make during an interview are: firstly, to think that they are doing their subject a favour and secondly, to automatically assume there is a mutual respect and understanding. Bottom line: this is a business – respect must be earned and knowledge should be questioned.
So what does this have to do with Eska, talented British singer, songwriter, producer and arranger? Well, what started out as the final instalment of a routine, Q n’A-based Triple Soul Special for Chaser – amid preparations for her forthcoming debut Herbert-produced album – soon developed into a heated discussion and frank baring of souls spanning topics including passion, the music industry and the meaning of success. We’ll just run with Eska’s words as she’s the star – and far more interesting. All other words are superfluous.
My thanks to Eska, the best soul singer this century since Aretha Franklin, for making me a better journalist. LOL.
ON RADIO SMASH ‘STICKS & STONES’, RELEASE SPECULATON ITS AND THE PARTICULARS OF HER “PROJECT” WITH MORGAN ZARATE:
“Morgan [Karate, of Space fame] started a project about a year ago with a view to it being a producer album. When he called me I just asked him a zillion questions: “What’s the plan? What’s the audience, what’s the label?” That discussion was quite good because it’s given us time to think about what we’re doing and whom we are writing for. Am I just songwriting here or am I Eska, the artist who is songwriting?
“To begin with, I wrote ‘Sticks & Stones’ instinctively as that was what the music was saying to me when Morgan played the backing track. Then we ended up working on two more songs together. Soon, we started thinking: “This is a project bigger than you or I.” For instance, I’m not the only songwriter. Michelle Escoffrey, among others, has written an absolutely phenomenal song with Morgan. It’s ridiculous!
“If only we had the right artist to work with on it. We’ve been looking for someone for a while but such people are hard to come by. The major label interest is there already, which is amazing since we haven’t even figured out what exactly “the project” is. Should it be producer-artist or straight artist? [Anyone interested in fronting a project with an A-class producer and an A-class songwriter should email Eska – eskaworld@gmail.com.]”
ON THE DIFFICULTIES OF IMMEDIATELY PUTTING SUCH RECORDS OUT:
“Nothing’s new under the sun. You can’t just put a tune out. I wish it were that simple. There has to be an audience in mind and someone receiving it at the other end or you could have easily have the best tune in the world lost in cyberspace; not doing anything, not getting played… That can be really frustrating for you as a writer or producer. To maximise an audience you have to be really clever and think, “how am I going to present the song in it’s best light?” Do I present it as me the producer or me as a songwriter with a producer, or perhaps getting another artist to front the material so you have a particular look and style. It’s difficult how the industry works. Once you find the artist you want to work with, then you pull together the writing and production teams. Then you spend a few months getting material together, forming some semblance of an album and formulating a style. Your act then has to embody that music.”
ON WORKING WITH MATTHEW HERBERT:
“Matthew is one of the craziest people I’ve met… with the greatest level of sobriety at the same time! I think it takes a lot of sobriety to be that crazy. He has been a real guardian angel in the last few years: seeing the way he lives, what he believes in and how that informs his music. Also, the way he develops his ideas and being privileged enough to get involved in that process, contribute writing and vocal ideas. That’s always exciting as it’s not easy to collaborate. I think I’ll be working with him for long time.”
ON COLLABORATIONS WITH OTHER PRODUCERS:
“Well there have been a select few. I know what I’m looking for in terms of musical partnership. There has to be a mutual respect in the first place for you as individual. Then there has to be a musical synergy that highlights and enhances what you do and presents you in the best light. And vice versa. I’m very fortunate that people have come my way or I’ve been invited to collaborate with some incredible artists [IG Culture, Jason Swinscoe and Ty for example]. Whatever it is, [the work] must be challenging. I’m always looking for challenging stuff – to be forced to think about what I’m writing – and not to rest on my laurels.”
ON WEARING MANY MUSICAL HATS, INCLUDING A POP ONE:
“I’ve worn many hats in my career. It’s something that’s enabled me to have a career as long as I’ve had. Whether it’s as a vocalist, a writer, a vocal arranger, producer or band member… I’ve done all manner of crazy things. This year alone, I’ve collaborated with Matthew Herbert doing vocal and choral arrangements, along with
Matthew Herbert Big Band recording sessions.
“Yes, I’ve had my season pop writing… for nameless names that you know! And that’s alright as it brings a totally different type of challenge. Pop writing is a very specific art. I absolutely love it but it can be frustrating.
“I always like the idea of putting a pop sensibility over something that is quite quirky and doesn’t sound as it should – like ‘Sticks & Stones’. Ironically, when I met Morgan, I said to myself he’s got such a strong pop sensibility in his production. That’s not something he’s ever done before. I’d hear his stuff and it would make me think of very pop top lines. He didn’t know about my pop background but thought, ‘Lets see where you’re coming from.’ After our two other tunes, he was thinking, ‘Oh my good, I am hearing my own stuff in a completely different light.’
“I’m aware that I’m moving in quite diverse circles so I can work both on the more commercial sounds and the stuff that is more experimental, instead of just thinking about PRS reward. That offers more kudos for me. I’m looking for a way of marrying the two and I feel we hit that on ‘Sticks and Stones’. It’s a great tune for the heads but goes beyond the typical audience that would not know me or Morgan. It’s about creating and developing an audience.”
ON THE AMERICAN WAY OF THE ‘COLAB’:
“The thing I sometimes appreciate about the American approach is that if you were to look at the writing credits under your average pop song you’d could easily find 10 names on there. You think to yourself, ‘How the hell did they get 10 people involved?’ Soon, you realise that sometimes it does take bashing a few heads together and being quite ruthless about the top line or the production to get it that track to be what it’s supposed to be. People over there are open and realise that to get a tenth of a great song is better than getting half of an average on. And your royalty statements will testify to that.”
ON MUSIC LISTENING HABITS AND IDENTITY:
“Obviously everyone wants to have their own identity and they want it to be unique. Then again, some people want to follow fashion and that’s their prerogative. There are many of us who been looking for the obscure and trying to find a land of our own, as it were, be it through music or fashion. I’m like that [the latter] but it’s also nice to share with other people.”
ON DEFINING “THE MAINSTREAM” AND IDENTIFYING WITH THE “MAN ON THE STREET”:
“What is mainstream? People like Elliot Smith would come over to England and sell out the Forum but most people wouldn’t even know who Elliot Smith is. Similarly, Indigo girls could sell out Brixton academy or Royal Festival Hall within a matter of days. But no one knows who they are. ‘Mainstream’ is really a press term. Not a music one.
“And what does the man on the street represent? Nothing really apart from someone who reads The Sun. That’s not necessarily a good thing. The average person may be into something not necessarily smart or sensible. I don’t know if the man on the street necessarily represents me. I’m not the woman on the street or the average girl. In fact, I don’t know anyone who wants to be average or grows up thinking that. Cinematic Orchestra [who Eska has worked with], for example, have their audience and a very big one at that. Jason Swinscoe has just finished a Hollywood soundtrack for a film on flamingos. He’s playing Coachella and all the big festivals in America. He’s doing big chat shows like Jay Leno. Does that make the Cinematic Orchestra mainstream? Well ok, it’s a bigger audience but I don’t subscribe to that way of thinking. Just because someone knows of something doesn’t necessarily mean that they engage with it. That’s the irony.
“In terms of economics, a person’s popularity – someone who is known and has a lot of media coverage – that doesn’t necessarily translate into sales or a career. It just translates into being known. People seem to think that being known quantifies as real monetary value. No. It just means that you are popular and a lot more people know of you. The disparity between level of popularity and monetary value also indicates the potential longevity of someone’s career.
“Being known is a useful promotional tool but what is really fundamental is being known and having an audience that you maintain, work with and develop. That’s what every artist needs to have. If an artist that hasn’t done this, they’ve merely followed ‘the fame game’, they may be well known but are not necessarily any more respected. There’s no sense of value in their work. You don’t have a career.
“Someone I consider to have done extremely well is Matthew Herbert. He’s very intelligent and he’s got an incredible audience. The average audience may not know his name but he’s been far more successful than most of the artists I’ve worked with who ARE known on the street. The irony. Getting our information from the man on the street is not really relevant to the music business and having a career, I think.
“I get questions comparing me with people who are more ‘popular’. I think that’s a really easy approach. Like someone saying that Eska is the greatest soul singer this century since Aretha Franklin. I’m for waiting for someone to actually write that in print. If you want great stuff to be heard in a bigger arena, that requires more ballsiness then some of the journalism I’ve come across.”
ON JOURNALISTS:
“I think of people like Lady Sovereign, who got a double-page spread in Observer Music Monthly a while ago – when she hadn’t even released a record – and I wonder how did that happen? It’s simple. You guys did that [the press]. Then you have magazines like the NME putting absolute unknowns on the front cover and telling people they’re the best thing ever – and people just go for it. That’s the power of the pen. The irony is that in certain circles – the thinking circles – people are quite candid and are more reserved in giving an opinion.
“I got to the point where I stopped doing interviews because of the sort of questions I was getting. Questions like, ‘Does it frustrate you that you’re not successful? For me, that line of questioning is loaded as it depicts someone who is struggling, not someone who is successful.
“I get questions comparing me with people who are more ‘popular’. I think that’s a really lazy approach. Like someone saying that Eska is the greatest soul singer this century since Aretha Franklin. I’m for waiting for someone to actually write that in print. If you want great stuff to be heard in a bigger arena, it requires more ballsiness then some of the journalism I’ve come across.
“One Guardian interviewer asked me, ‘Don’t you want to be famous? To be a success and well known like Jamelia?’ I just looked at her and said, ‘I am a success. What gives you the impression that I am not a success? You think Jamelia is making more money than me because you saw her video or something?’ It’s ridiculous. That same journalist will then interview someone you’ve never heard of and will call them the next big thing. Then, the public will think that person is great, not because they’ve heard them being great or they’ve seen them being great but because they’ve just been told. Journalism in the main is incredibly lazy, not thought through and not ambitious enough. I am an extremely ambitious and that’s how I’ve managed to be in the business for so long.”
ON ACHIEVING SUCCESS IN MUSIC:
“I recently received an email on a forum from someone about an open debate they were having on the state of British black music. The more questions I read, the more depressed I became. By the time I got to the end I thought what successful artist in their right mind would attend an interview like that. This bunch of people were obviously depressed about something. But I’m not. I’m having the time of my life doing something I’ve always wanted to do. This guy then wrote back asking me if I was frustrated about not being… ‘What, that I’m not in the Mirror or that I didn’t make it into the News of the World? So if you saw me in those papers you’d assume that I was a success? Ironically, having played the PR game myself once or twice, I have been in the Mirror… but it was all lies. It’s the game you have to play. Strange how journalists can’t understand the game that they’re a part of.
“I finished by telling this guy, ‘Instead of having this debate why don’t you have an online site that champions British black music: be the first to say that X or Y is the greatest since whenever because, you know what… people might just believe it. You’re not saying positive things yourself so what do you expect?”
ON HER DEBUT SOLO ALBUM:
“Matthew’s producing my album [forthcoming on Herbert’s Accidental records]. It will have heavy influences of folk-rhythm and blues-psychedelia. Straight up! That is what it's going to be, or at least that is what I would like it to turn out to be. LOL Other projects are also in the pipeline.”
ON HER AMBITIONS:
“From a vocalist’s point of view and as someone who’s involved themselves in jazz for many years, working with a big band is like a dream come true. And to be in a Matthew Herbert big band is another trip. Next I’d love to work with a full orchestra: singing live and recording with them.
“I’m also trying to develop an online label home for my own music. The plan is to develop a home for other artists’ music and to promote things I love – the cross-arts. Everything I do feeds back into music in some way. So when I discover new stuff from the worlds of science, graphic design or whatever, I can highlight it. I will be very much an ideas factory that will fuel me creatively. I try to explore fascinating technologies. For example, Matthew [Herbert] has this special Lemur, which he uses as a progressive sampling machine in his live shows that works by moving balls around a screen. Stuff like that trips me out. It pushes music forward. I studied maths at university so my brain works like that.”
(www.myspace.com/eskamtungwazi; www.accidentalrecords.com)
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Words: Amar Patel
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